October 8th, 2006 9:02 pm
From AP:
South Korea - South Korean government officials said North Korea performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test Monday, the South’s Yonhap news agency reported.
South Korean officials could not immediately confirm the report.
South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun convened an urgent meeting of security advisers over the issue, Yonhap reported.
The North said last week it would conduct a nuclear test as part of its deterrent against a possible U.S. invasion.
The director of South Korea’s monitoring center that is watching for a test with sound and seismic detectors declined to immediately comment on the report. The U.S. Geological Survey said it had detected no seismic activity in North Korea, although it was not clear whether a blast would be strong enough for its sensors.
I wonder if members of the Clinton administration are again toasting this momentus milestone of their 1994 Framework Agreement?
*****FLASHBACK*****
June 26, 2004 on this blog:
Let’s look at two scenarios, played out by two Presidents:
1. War in Iraq insures Saddam Hussein, a ruthless, murdering dictator guilty of invading neighbor countries, using WMDs and hating America, will never get a chance to build and use a nuke.
2. A framework agreement with North Korea asking for the promise not to build nukes from a ruthless, murdering dictator gets us this:
BEIJING - North Korea has threatened to test a nuclear weapon unless Washington accepts Pyongyang’s conditions for a freeze of its nuclear weapons program, a senior U.S. official said.
North Korea said it wants hefty energy aid in exchange for the freeze, calling on the United States to make a “responsible, bold decision.” The demands came at six-nation talks Friday. source
The very kind of blackmail we didn’t want to see.
Any questions?
*****
Saddam had every intention of doing exactly what Kim Jong Il has now done. Now imagine if we’d treated Iraq the same way and continued down the road of useless U.N. sanctions and “containment”.
Update:
Looks like it’s official.
In Seoul a foreign ministry spokesman said South Korea’s intelligence agency has detected a 3.58-magnitude seismic tremor, following North Korea’s announcement of a nuclear test.
Update 2:
South Korean stock market is tumbling fast on the news. KOSPI | KOSDAQ
Update 3:
Here’s why NK’s nuclear test is a big deal.
Update 4:
Harry Reid is thanking Kim Jong Il for giving him some campaign material down the stretch.
Update 5:
A second “blast”?
Update 6:
Some experts are saying that the first NK nuclear test registered less seismic activity than Michael Moore diving for a twinkie.
Others:
John’s on the same wavelength in his coverage.
Wall-to-wall coverage at HotAir.
Bryan is awaiting Tokyo’s reaction.
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Report: North Korea May Have Conducted Nuke Test
Not a lot of information on this yet…will keep you informed and updated as this develops.
Here is the report across the line.
A South Korean government official said there is information that North Korea might have conducted a nuclear test M…
Trackback by Stop The ACLU — 9:22 pm
BREAKING: NORTH KOREA CONDUCTS NUCLEAR TEST
(I’ve gone back and forth between “BREAKING” to “REPORTS” on this headline. While it seems there is a lot of confirmation, still nothing for the Pentagon) *****MAJOR UPDATE - NORTH KOREA NOW CONFIRMS, SAYS TEST WAS SUCCESS***** SEOUL, South Korea…
Trackback by RightWinged.com — 9:29 pm
Unconfirmed report: N.Korea nuke test;update: seismic activity detected
Drudge siren. Fox reporting. Allah monitoring: U.S. intel can’t confirm. Bryan Preston’s thoughts from Friday: Diplomacy isn’t going to stop North Korea’s nuclear ambitions. That’s the bottom line. North Korea sees nukes as its last best hope o…
Trackback by Michelle Malkin — 9:43 pm
[…] Texas Rainmaker reminds us of the Clinton’s failed 1994 Framework Agreement. […]
Pingback by THE YELLING BOX » NORTH KOREA CONDUCTS NUKE TEST — 9:55 pm
North Korea Success In Nuke Test
Constant updates at Stop The ACLU: Someone tell Bush to push the red button! Update: Not looking good: In Seoul a foreign ministry spokesman said South Korea’s intelligence agency has detected a 3.58-magnitude seismic tremor, following North Korea’s …
Trackback by Conservative Thinking — 10:09 pm
will you people ever stop blaming clinton for everything? he hasn’t been in power for six years! how about some blame for the guy whose been at the helm since 2000, huh?
Comment by tattler — 10:19 pm
That would be expecting too much, tattler. Republicans may have controlled both Houses and the Presidency for the past six years, but one thing we can count on for sure is that they will never, ever, take responsibility for anything.
Comment by Nate — 11:01 pm
I might add that it warms my heart to see the conservative politicians, media, and blogs circle the wagons around Hastert and Co. Casting the blame at Democrats, gays, the liberal media, anybody but themselves may play well to the base, but it will be deadly for swing voters.
Memo to all you conservatives out there: please keep doing what you are doing, and don’t stop until you’ve alienated every single moderately Republican suburban mom in the country.
Comment by Nate — 11:32 pm
Ignore my last post. In my desire to strike home a point I neglected to heed the topic of this post: North Korea. My thoughts? I suppose China is key. As I understand it, they supply a lot of food and aid to North Korea, and are instrumental in propping up Kim’s regime. Are they upset or merely annoyed by this latest outburst?
Comment by Nate — 11:38 pm
North Korea Successfully Tests Nuclear Weapon
Well, this is not good news for the world. It seems that it has been confirmed through geological seismic activity that North Korea has followed up on its plans to test a nuclear weapon this weekend. Notifying China 20 minutes…
Trackback by Diggers Realm — 11:46 pm
[…] As Texas Rainmaker said, I wonder if the old Clinton regime is still toasting to their huge success? […]
Pingback by Flopping Aces » Blog Archive » North Korea Tests A Nuke — 12:07 am
North Korea Says it Detonated Nuclear Bomb
Thanks, U.N. Security Council. Thanks, Clinton Administration. All that Clinton-era appeasement of North Korea, followed by the U.N.’s toothless diplomatic pressure on North Korea to halt its nuclear weapons program, ignoring calls by the United State…
Trackback by GINA COBB — 12:58 am
[…] Reports of North Korea Nuke Test […]
Pingback by Picture reveals why we’re in the North Korea mess in the first place « Fish-Wrap.net — 5:18 am
[…] Texas Rainmaker wants everyone to remember why we are in this situation to begin with. The photo above helps to do that. […]
Pingback by Right Voices » Blog Archive » Madeline Albrights’ Reaction To North Korea — 7:06 am
will you people ever stop blaming clinton for everything? he hasn’t been in power for six years! how about some blame for the guy whose been at the helm since 2000, huh?
Comment by tattler — 10:19 pm
tattler,
Was that not Madeleine Albright, Clinton’s secretary of State, clinking champayne glasses with Kim Jong Il signing the 1994 framework agreement? Who should we blame…Abraham Lincoln! People like you will defend the likes of Clinton right up to the point Kim Jong decides he’s going to nuke the entire West coast of the U.S. You’re an idiot
Comment by mot — 8:51 am
Another Democrat Success Story – North Korea Tests Nuclear Weapon
Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton once again prove that dictators usually can’t be taken at their word as North Korea test fires a nuclear weapon. I wonder if Bill Clinton will go on Fox and accuse North Korea of participating in a vast right wing conspi…
Trackback by Webloggin — 8:55 am
Nuclear Short Man Syndrome
I have to wonder, just how many phone books was Kim Jong Il standing on in order to tower over former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright? Even accounting for the retro hair fluff, he’s got the “steely eyes staring down upon you” ad…
Trackback by Java Zen:Thinking Out Loud — 9:01 am
[…] Updated update! Texas Rainmaker was thinking the same thing I was. […]
Pingback by Cold Fury » Blog Archive » Meanwhile, back in reality — 9:35 am
“will you people ever stop blaming clinton for everything? he hasn’t been in power for six years! how about some blame for the guy whose been at the helm since 2000, huh?”
You’re right, he hasn’t been in power for six years, but the damage he left in his wake is evident this morning. It’s like watching a spouse run up massive credit card debt just before he leaves you. During the time you felt like you had comfort and security (”peace”), you were able to afford lots of nice things (”prosperity”) and you didn’t think twice about the negative future impact of your current activities. Of course, once the debt had been racked up, there wasn’t anything you could do to undo the charges. Then one day, the bill comes due and you realize it was all an illusion.
Welcome to that day.
Comment by Texas Rainmaker — 10:20 am
[…] Update: Damp squib. Other guys used the same pic better, too. […]
Pingback by Chapomatic » All Righty Then. Assuming the Earthquake Guys Are Right — 10:59 am
Can we run a nuclear test in North Korea too?
Sorry, sometimes I just don’t feel too PC.
Comment by SouthernRoots — 10:59 am
[…] Texas Rainmaker is reminding us how we got here (with a photo of a famous toast, thank you Madeliene Albright), and pointing out the similarities and differences in our North Korea and Iraq policies. […]
Pingback by North Korea now part of the Nuclear Club « Tai-Chi Policy — 11:21 am
Actually, what got us here was Bush putting the 1994 Memorandum of Understanding on ice upon taking office. His refusal to talk sent a loud signal to North Korea: no talks until you get yourself a big stick. Now they have that biggest of sticks, and of course the US will sit down to talk with them. Bush can squirm as much as he wishes, but his bluff was called, and he lost. Again.
By the way, the MOU called for the plutonium-producing plants that North Korea had developed to be replaced with lightwater reactors by 2003. That would have severely reduced the chance of NK getting enough fissile materials for a bomb. But of course, that didn’t happen, so NK felt free to completely withdraw from the MOA (and the NPT) in 2003, and started reprocessing the rods from those reactors. That’s when things really started happening, but the US was too preoccupied with their other major disaster, Iraq, to pay any attention to NK. I imagine they thought they would deal with it as soon as Iraq was finished, probably figuring it would help them in the negotiations. Big oops.
And of course the picture of Albright shown in this post dates from 2000. Albright wasn’t even Secretary of State in 1994, when the MOA was signed. She tried to consolidate the agreement to replace the reactors, in the hope that both sides would see it as the only way forward. Unfortunately, Bush killed it on arrival in DC, and didn’t plan anything to replace it.
Comment by endorendil — 1:07 pm
Endorendil,
Wrong again. You can pretend all you want that the 1994 Agreed Framework was all that was needed for non-proliferation by NK, but the truth of the matter is that they were non-compliant before it, non-compliant during negotiation, and non-compliant after implementation. The difference is Clinton trusted them, Bush didn’t.
Comment by Texas Rainmaker — 1:44 pm
[…] RELATED: Texas Rainmaker remembers the toast… These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. […]
Pingback by California Conservative » The Clinton Legacy: North Korea’s Nukes — 2:52 pm
You’re right, he hasn’t been in power for six years, but the damage he left in his wake is evident this morning. It’s like watching a spouse run up massive credit card debt just before he leaves you.
OMG. This is too rich!
I think that 6 years of ignoring NK (apart from calling them ‘evil’) might have something to do with the current situation, no? Or, perhaps we should just pick a past president because we can’t be blamed for anything.
The best part though is the credit card analogy. This is the worst hypocrisy I have seen in quite a while. Let’s look at the nation’s credit card - the national debt. Bush and the repub congress have run that card to their hearts content with no plan or intention of bringing in a balanced budget. Spending more than ‘tax and spend’ liberals, but while giviong tax breaks to the rich.
Please, give us another lesson in accountability, Texas. Sheesh.
Comment by Charlie — 3:03 pm
“I think that 6 years of ignoring NK (apart from calling them ‘evil’) might have something to do with the current situation, no?”
Or not…
And all while under the 1994 Framework Agreement.
I love how you all say we should’ve been taking action against North Korea, who was already thought to have nuclear weapons (and now has proven such), while you complain that we are wasting time in Iraq… though we were able to go in and remove their radical dictator before he became a nuclear power.
Even your hindsight sucks.
“The best part though is the credit card analogy. This is the worst hypocrisy I have seen in quite a while. Let’s look at the nation’s credit card - the national debt. Bush and the repub congress have run that card to their hearts content with no plan or intention of bringing in a balanced budget. Spending more than ‘tax and spend’ liberals, but while giviong tax breaks to the rich.”
Don’t you get tired of this line of BS? The tax breaks went to EVERYONE… heck, even including those who didn’t pay any tax to begin with.
I’m so tired of hearing folks complain that “the rich” get bigger breaks when the overall rates are reduced, yet don’t praise “the rich” for the fact they’re paying the lion’s share of the tax burden already.
Let’s go to a national consumption or flat tax and cut spending. That way, everyone wins.
Comment by Texas Rainmaker — 3:37 pm
As for the ‘BS’, I’ll quote the CBPP(http://www.cbpp.org/4-14-04tax-sum.htm)
But you aren’t realy addressing the point I was raising about taxcuts, anyway. He is the one running up the ‘credit card’, here. And there is no way you can plausibly refute it.
Comment by Charlie — 4:50 pm
Charlie,
I don’t dispute that the reduction of tax rates results in a larger cut for the top earners. It’s simple math. Reduce the tax liability by 10%, it results in a $100 savings for the guy making $1,000, but it results in a $10,000 savings for the guy making $100,000. And that doesn’t even get into the progressive nature of our tax system, which results in a much larger negative impact on the top earners.
Such a redistribution of wealth system smacks of socialism. That’s not what the American dream is all about.
As for your point about the credit card analogy, I understood it. And I agreed that spending is out of control. And I agree it ought to be cut significantly and immediately. But I don’t think those of you complaining about the spending are willing to make the cuts to entitlement programs and other wasteful spending that is needed. Or are you one of those thinking we ought to eliminate the “war machine” that defends our way of life?
Comment by Texas Rainmaker — 8:06 pm
Was the bomb a dud or a hoax?
Is Kim Jong Il a fraud? A Fake? Was his nuclear test a fraud?
That is the question being raised in some circles.
U.S. doubts Korean test was nuclear
U.S. intelligence agencies say, based on preliminary indications, that North Korea did no…
Trackback by Leaning Straight Up — 2:16 am
TR, both China and North Korea obsessively obey their international legal obligations. If the US had replaced the old reactors with safer new ones, NK would not have been able to use the breach of the MoU as an excuse to leave the NPT. Of course, it also would not have had access to the fissile material to build its bombs. And the US would have shown that it can be negotiated with in good faith.
As you say, in 1999 and 2000 the facility was visited and found to have no signs of illicit nuclear research. This inspection was possible because of the MoU. That means Clinton’s approach was working. Sure, US intelligence agencies thought that they might be doing stuff anyway. We know how reliable they are, don’t we? They never knew India was building a bomb until it exploded. Same in Pakistan. The reverse in Iraq and North Korea (at least when they wrote the assessments in ‘99 and ‘00). They’re 0 for 4.
Comment by endorendil — 2:59 am
As you say, in 1999 and 2000 the facility was visited and found to have no signs of illicit nuclear research. This inspection was possible because of the MoU. That means Clinton’s approach was working.
So, based on endorendil’s statement, we should believe that, with virtually no natural resources, an economy in dire straits, and millions of starving citizens, North Korea was able to create a nuclear device, suitable for testing, in less than 5 years (because we know they didn’t start any of this until after Jan 21, 2001)?
Uh-huh.
So, with Irans greater wealth and supposedly fewer domestic problems, and no MoU - why haven’t they tested their nuclear device yet? Surely, if North Korea can do such amazing things in 5 years, why can’t the Iranians?
Comment by SouthernRoots — 11:17 am
[…] DRAWING RED LINES: With few good options left, the Bush administration is now forced to consider options it originally rejected. Yesterday, Bush "_seemed to draw a sharp line that he warned Pyongyang not to cross_ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/09/AR200…) ," telling reporters that the "transfer of nuclear weapons or material by North Korea to states or non-state entities would be considered a grave threat to the United States, and we would hold North Korea fully accountable of the consequences of such action." But these clear warning lines — employed by the Clinton administration to prevent North Korea from going too far and converting fuel into bombs — were previously rejected by the Bush administration. National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley once stated that "_red lines make no sense in North Korea’s case_ (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/03/news/nuke.php) , because they are just an invitation to step over them." The right-wing’s knee-jerk reaction to _blame_ (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2006/10/no_korea_drop…) _President_ (http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2006/10/08/breaking-reports-of-north-ko…) _Clinton_ (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/10/north-korea-clinton/) and reject his administration’s policies out-of-hand is no longer realistic and now more dangerous than ever. Under the 1994 "_Agreed Framework_ (http://democrats.senate.gov/pdfs/NSAG_WorstWeaponsinWorstHands_July20…) ," North Korea agreed to shut down its major nuclear reactor, stop construction of two nuclear power plants, and subject spent nuclear fuel to international inspection. In return, Japan and South Korea agreed to build two light-water reactors (far less of a proliferation concern) and the United States would supply North Korea with heavy oil to make up for the lost energy from its shuttered nuclear plants. Once the light-water reactors were completed, their existing nuclear reactors were to be dismantled. The deal wasn’t perfect, but during the Clinton administration, _North Korea didn’t make any nuclear bombs_ (http://democrats.senate.gov/pdfs/NSAG_WorstWeaponsinWorstHands_July20…) . […]
Pingback by WintheLog :: Progress Report: Six Years of Failure :: October :: 2006 — 7:45 am
SouthernRoots, it really is much more difficult to do.
NK has had plutonium-producing reactors since Reagan’s days, which has generated about 8000 spent fuel rods before it was mothballed under the MoU and put under UN seal and monitoring. They actually didn’t break the seals up until 2003. All they needed to do was to start reprocessing the rods to extract the plutonium. That’s trivial compared to enriching uranium, which is what the Iranians are doing, and what NK was doing after 1994 (since it wasn’t prohibited by the MoU). Despite their best efforts, and help from Pakistan’s Khan, NK isn’t even close to producing a uranium bomb, 10 years later. That’s how much harder it is to produce a uranium bomb.
Incidentally, Iran is going at a pace that is compatible with peaceful purposes (even if that isn’t it’s ultimate goal). If it wanted a quick bomb, it would build a small Magnox reactor, produce plutonium and use that.
Comment by endorendil — 3:48 pm
The conservative version of history:
“Failure” =1994-2002 — Era of Clinton ‘Agreed Framework’: No plutonium production. All existing plutonium under international inspection. No bomb.
“Success” = 2002-2006 — Bush Policy Era: Active plutonium production. No international inspections of plutonium stocks. Nuclear warhead detonated.
From Josh Marshall’s Talking Points Memo:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/010311.php
Comment by Nate — 5:52 pm
““Failure” =1994-2002 — Era of Clinton ‘Agreed Framework’: No plutonium production. All existing plutonium under international inspection. No bomb.”
Oh, you’re right. The Clinton administration was a roaring success on this.
April 1997: A South Korean newspaper publishes an essay written by a high-ranking North Korean defector, in which he implies that North Korea has nuclear weapons and the ability to use them against South Korea and Japan.
In 1998, U.S. Secretary of Defense William Cohen said plutonium had been detected at suspected nuclear weapons production facilities in North Korea. The State Department confirmed there was “credible evidence” of such.
Also in 1998:
March 1999: A U.S. Department of Energy intelligence report claims that North Korea is working on uranium enrichment techniques.
July 1999: A U.S. intelligence report claims that North Korea has between 25 and 30 kilograms of weapon-grade plutonium, enough to make several nuclear warheads.
October 2000: The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) assesses that North Korea has produced enough plutonium for at least one, and possibly two, nuclear weapons.
Just a smashing success. Maybe the documents Sandy Berger stole and destroyed were Achievement Awards for this bang up job with North Korea.
Comment by Texas Rainmaker — 7:57 pm
“April 1997: A South Korean newspaper publishes an essay written by a high-ranking North Korean defector, in which he implies that North Korea has nuclear weapons and the ability to use them against South Korea and Japan.”
Which was clearly debunked by the UN monitors. Defectors have a bad track record in this matter, don’t you agree? And you’re saying that NK went through some kind of charade over the last 3 years, pretending to build a plutonium bomb while in reality it already had one for years?
“In 1998, U.S. Secretary of Defense William Cohen said plutonium had been detected at suspected nuclear weapons production facilities in North Korea. The State Department confirmed there was “credible evidence” of such.”
Leaks might have existed before. But constant monitoring proves that no activity was going on at either the reactor or the rods.
“March 1999: A U.S. Department of Energy intelligence report claims that North Korea is working on uranium enrichment techniques.”
Yes, they were, and it was not prohibited under the MoU. It was also a complete dead end. They still don’t have the capability to make uranium bombs.
“July 1999: A U.S. intelligence report claims that North Korea has between 25 and 30 kilograms of weapon-grade plutonium, enough to make several nuclear warheads.”
Yes, exactly. It was under lock and key, in those 8000 rods that they started reprocessing in 2003. The entire point of the MoU was to keep that plutonium from being used.
“October 2000: The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) assesses that North Korea has produced enough plutonium for at least one, and possibly two, nuclear weapons.”
Same as before. They had the plutonium, but it was inside the rods. It needed to be reprocessed, which is the step that the Clinton administration successfully halted.
TR, Clinton did manage to control NK, which is something Bush hasn’t even tried to do. Republicans have a horrid track record in this matter anyway. Reagan allowed NK to build the reactor. Bush senior allowed them to build the reprocessing plant. Thank goodness that Clinton stopped them shortly after becoming president, or they would have had nukes ten years ago…
Comment by endorendil — 8:45 am
[…] Her advisors include someone who negotiated a deal with North Korea to provide them nuclear fuel which they used to build weapons, someone who traded campaign donations for burial rights at Arlington National Cemetary from someone who never served in the military , and someone who pled guilty to stealing and destroying classified documents detailing the response to terror threats. […]
Pingback by Texas Rainmaker » A Glimpse Into Another Clinton Administration — 9:33 pm